End of 'Angel', and other Buffyverse links

[mollyringle]

(Welcome, all those whom I dragged over here from mollyringwraith! Here's some of the promised discussion...)

I'm finally done watching every episode of Angel, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and Firefly, so aside from the comic books and upcoming projects, I can no longer be spoiled on anything Joss Whedon has done. And I am most definitely a devoted Buffyverse fangirl who will, one of these months, go back and acquire it all on DVD and watch it all again.

Which is not to say that the last moments of Angel didn't irritate me at first. I mean, you call that an ending? I'm more inclined to call it "ran out of time and was mad at being canceled so decided to leave things in a tangle." But after some thought, I've accepted it. The ambiguity fits the moral ambiguities of the show all along. Anyway, clearly Spike, Angel, Lorne, and Illyria all survive. Gunn, probably not. Wesley: *sniffle*! I'll miss him in the comic books. But at this point killing him was basically a way of putting him out of his misery, so maybe it's for the best.

Anyway, then we went back and re-watched the "Spike fights puppet Angel" bit from "Smile Time," which my husband hadn't seen, and he laughed harder than I've seen him laugh at anything in weeks, so this season has redeemed itself. Truly it was a great season overall, and I'm bummed they got cancelled when they did. I hear they really were planning to bring Oz back for season 6! Dang it. Oh well, maybe those comics...

So, a couple good essays by writer Jennifer Crusie here:
Dating Death, detailing why romance writers love watching BtVS, particularly the Spike/Buffy dynamic
The Assassination of Cordelia Chase, on how the show's writers screwed up with Cordy's character.
Major spoilers for both of those, which I can now read! Hoorah.

And a funny cartoon about the end of "Buffy", again with spoilers: http://archive.gamespy.com/comics/dorktower/images/comics/dorktower256.jpg

So. Dang. Guess I'll decompress with some movies for a week or so, then launch into the new "Dr Who" and see how I like it.

In the meantime...one of those new Buffy comics, I hear, features a nice dream sequence picture of Buffy lounging in bed with Spike and Angel on either side of her. I don't suppose anyone has scanned that so I can stare at it lasciviously? Or do I have to wait till I get my own copy?

:)

Comments

[sopdetly.livejournal.com]

*sits quietly in the corner squeeing about you hopefully enjoying DW*

[dirae.livejournal.com]

You don't know how patiently I've been waiting for Molly's move to Doctor Who as well. Oy.

[mollyringle.livejournal.com]

The pressure! You guys know I'm going to feel extremely guilty now if it doesn't grab me... ;)

[astroman-rich.livejournal.com]

Now you've done it - people are going to start arguing over whether you should skip the Eccleston/Piper episodes and go right into the Tennant/Agyeman series. ;-)

[mollyringle.livejournal.com]

I've already seen some of that debate. :) I won't dare stir up the fandom yet by broaching the topic...not till I've actually seen a few examples of both seasons!

[rachel2205.livejournal.com]

Don't worry, mate, I'll back you up if you don't care. ;)

[mollyringle.livejournal.com]

Heheh. I bet the Doctor-Who-mania is even stronger over there than it is here! Must be annoying if you're not watching it...

[modmerseygirl.livejournal.com]

Ditto that! ;-)

[mollyringle.livejournal.com]

My f-list squeeing over it certainly helped move it up the list. ;)

If only *I* ever influenced anyone to watch anything...

[astroman-rich.livejournal.com]

You've made me read different things - does that count? :-)

[mollyringle.livejournal.com]

It does make me feel better. :) Anyway, I was just whining. Some people actually have said in the past that they've followed my recommendations to great discoveries.

[dirae.livejournal.com]

I resent that! I do not *squee*... no sir, I *muse* and *ruminate*.
Just because I think David Tennant has *IT* does not mean I *squee*... he leaves me conflicted given my totally non-sexualized past with Doctor Who. :P

You better fancy it or we are going to take your pervy card away.

[mollyringle.livejournal.com]

Naturally you don't squee, but others certainly do. ;)

I suspect I'll like Tennant even if the Eccleston series doesn't grab me. I've seen Tennant in one or two other things, and really liked his goofy qualities. If he turns it toward pervy as well, I will likely get hooked. (And hey, from the link astroman_rich provided, looks like James Marsters is contributing to the perviness on "Torchwood", so that's motivation for me right there!)

[mollyringle.livejournal.com]

(Oops...that link was on a different entry. 'Twas this comment: "Well, it's not quite Spangel, but check out http://www.afterelton.com/node/6096 and scroll down just a bit for the comments about Marsters...")

[tdj.livejournal.com]

I loved the end of Angel. Buffy is about growing up, and at some point, that gets managed (or you settle into being broken).

Angel is about being an adult, and that shit never ends.

[rachel2205.livejournal.com]

This is possibly the most concise and best description of the difference between the two shows I have read!

[tdj.livejournal.com]

Why, thank you!

[mollyringle.livejournal.com]

I concur with Rachel: very good summary!

And, hah, I finally understand your icon. Awesome.

[tdj.livejournal.com]

Smile Time.

I still occasionally break that one out to re-watch it.

[girlpire.livejournal.com]

best. comment. ever.

can i quote you on my userinfo?

[tdj.livejournal.com]

Feel free!

[ellenscult]

Thank you for the links! Very good essays there.

I get the Buffy comic (read the latest issue last night), and I think I'd remember that dream... If it turns up in a future issue, I'll happily scan it for you!

[mollyringle.livejournal.com]

Looks like it ended up on Wikipedia already. Heh. It's uh...interesting! If a bit weird. :)

[sea0tter12.livejournal.com]

Not the best resolution, but here's some Buffy/Angel/Spike goodness: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Longwayhome3.jpg

[mollyringle.livejournal.com]

Thanks! Hah...gosh, that's...a little weird. But fun too.

[sea0tter12.livejournal.com]

Also, you know that Angel Season 6 is coming out in comic book form, right? :)

[mollyringle.livejournal.com]

Yep! Called "After the Fall," I believe. Guess he must have survived. :)

[threerings.livejournal.com]

launch into the new "Dr Who"

*maniacal grin of glee*

It will consume you. Seriously, you're exactly following my path of DVD watching, except about 9 months behind. It's fascinating.

And lesson the first about Doctor Who....The title of the show is written "Doctor Who" and the character is known as "the Doctor."

/nitpicking

[mollyringle.livejournal.com]

You know, I'm going to feel real guilty if it doesn't grab me now. :) But that is cool about following the same DVD rental path!

I know the show technically spells it out "Doctor," but, what, I can't use "Dr" as an abbreviation? Was it wrong for me to write "Lord of the Rings" (or LOTR) when the full title is "THE Lord of the Rings" (TLOTR)? ;)

[threerings.livejournal.com]

Well, it's a personal pet peev, shared by more than a few people in the fandom. :)

[dirae.livejournal.com]

Cut the girl some slack.

Oy. Fandom.

*Shakes Head and wonders off.*

[mollyringle.livejournal.com]

Hehe. Thanks. Ah, I love poking fandom and watching it flail and squeak.

[all-timeqb.livejournal.com]

I know the show technically spells it out "Doctor," but, what, I can't use "Dr" as an abbreviation?

What!? You want to ABBREVIATE the title of the sacred "Doctor Who"? Don't you realize that by simply using "Dr," that it compromises the integrity and sanctity of the show!?

Watching "Doctor Who" comes with a lot of responsibilities...and if you don't think you're going to be able handle them, then maybe you should just watch "Journeyman."

Newbie :P

[mollyringle.livejournal.com]

LOL...

Right, sir. Sorry, sir.

Ahh, as the saying goes, "Fandom is fucking funny," and we must never let fandom itself forget it. :)

[dirae.livejournal.com]

I think I will make a t-shirt that says, "Watching Doctor Who comes with a lot of responsibilities..."

That hubby of mine is too cute for his own good.

[mollyringle.livejournal.com]

Print up a bunch...bet you could sell 'em!

[dirae.livejournal.com]

Hrmm. If we want to play *that* game, you know that the first "Doctor" was called "Dr. Who" by his companions Ian and Barbara for lack of knowing his name (In script form it was written just as that--Dr. Who). I think Ian calls him "Dr. Foreman" because that is what Susan named him. Doctor One says something like "Doctor who?" The "doctor who?" joke is a running joke in the series (down to the question mark motif). Anyhoo, Ian and Barbara call him both "The Doctor" and "Doctor Who" so no one is technically wrong, fandom pet peeve or not. You really shouldn't nitpick or it can be a turn off.

[While I am at it, I think Ecceleston's Doctor was listed as "Doctor Who" in the credits.]

[threerings.livejournal.com]

[While I am at it, I think Ecceleston's Doctor was listed as "Doctor Who" in the credits.]

Yes, he was, and David Tennant made them change it to "The Doctor" to be more correct. If we're talking arcane bits of knowledge.

I second your "Oy, Fandom" and headshake.

I forgot to put in the standard disclaimer: This message is intended as friendly conversation and should not be taken too seriously. This means you, Who fandom.

lemonlye, sorry if you took offense, I was just teasing. I'll go away now.

[dirae.livejournal.com]

I, too, mean no offense.

I loathe the know-it-all quality of fandom. Lemonlye and I have been in a few "fandoms" together since the mid-1990s and have dealt with various levels of in-fighting. Such "facts" as the one you presented come across as snarky on the internet because the ability to read one's tone is non-existent unless coded to show intent.

Many people get their thrills by belittling "newbies". It ends up being a turn off for many people who are experiencing something for the first time.
I think Morrissey unintentionally summed up fandom when he wrote, "There is always someone somewhere with a big nose who knows and trips you up and laughs when you fall."

[mollyringle.livejournal.com]

It's okay! Don't go away. I didn't mean to offend you either; I just like to needle fandom sometimes when it seems to be getting too fussy. The whole point of being a fan, after all, is to have fun. :)

I figure I'll have a lot of fun with this issue, too...might have to call him "Il Dottore" just to be annoying for one or two posts. :D